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Saturday, January 31, 2009

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This sounds fascinating. One question, though, and I feel a bit guilty for asking because it's tangential to the post, but: is there any more context given for Baron-Cohen's quote? As given, it sounds like he's talking about "brains associated with thought-patterns stereotypically categorised as male" and "brains associated with thought-patterns stereotypically categorised as female" without making any assertions about what proportion of "male brains" are actually found in men. I've certainly seen articles arguing that those brain-types exist but are either not coupled to physical sex at all, or at least not as coupled as popular mythology would have it. (The title of B-C's book would seem to indicate that's not actually the argument he's making, but I'm slightly wary of extrapolating from titles, since they can be chosen to be deliberately controversial ...)

I'll let Cameron answer this first, re. the B-C quote:

'The difference between the two lists reflects what Baron-Cohen takes to be the 'essential difference' between male and female brains. The female-brain jobs make use of a capacity for empathy and communication, whereas the male ones exploit the ability to analyse complex systems. Baron-Cohen is careful to talk about 'people with the female/male brain' rather than 'men and women'. He stresses that there are men with female brains, women with male brains, and individuals of both sexes with 'balanced brains'. He refers to the major brain-types as 'male' and 'female', however, because the tendency is for males to have male brains and females to have female brains. And at many points it becomes clear that in spite of his caveats about not confusing gender with brain-sex, he himself is doing exactly that.

The passage reproduced above is a good example. Baron-Cohen classifies nursing as a female-brain, empathy-based job (although if a caring and empathetic nurse cannot measure dosages accurately and make systematic clinical observations she or he risks doing serious harm) and law as a male-brain system-analysing job (though a lawyer, however well-versed in the law, will not get far without communication and people-reading skills). These categorizations are not based on a dispassionate analysis of the demands made by the two jobs. They are based on an everyday common-sense knowledge that most nurses are women and most lawyers are men. If you read the two lists in their entirety, it is hard not to be struck by another 'essential difference': the male jobs are more varied, more creative, and better rewarded than their female counterparts.'

More generally and for myself, I think it is impossible to talk about the 'male' brain and the 'female' brain without implying that certain characteristics are inherent in men and certain characteristics are inherent in women. Why make the semantic connection if there isn't an actual confluence? Why not talk about brain type A as opposed to brain type Z instead?
Further, the words being used are very specific and limiting. The word 'male' is defined by OED as 'of, relating to, or characteristic of a man; masculine'; female as 'of, relating to, or characteristic of a woman.' To talk about a woman with a 'male' brain is, therefore, to suggest there is something unnatural about her; similarly, a man with a 'female' brain is not quite a man. These are the exceptions that prove the rule.

And is it productive to corral the multiplicity of human experience into just two major categories? I think it incredibly reductive. B-C's usage is symptomatic of our inability to think beyond our bodies, and beyond the roles our society assigns to them.

Thanks. In response to this:

"Why make the semantic connection if there isn't an actual confluence?"

I say: because our culture makes that semantic connection all the time, every day, and to the extent that "masculine" stands for a constellation of qualities that is not denoted by any other single term, it exists. And, obviously, unchallenged it is self-reinforcing over time. Work that investigates how different groups of human beings are identified by the terms "male" and "masculine" therefore seems to me extremely valuable. (And for what it's worth, if someone described me as having a "feminine" brain I wouldn't necessarily draw any inference about my being not-quite-a-man from it, because quite plainly I am male. But that may just be me, and I certainly agree those statements *can* be made as insults.)

Niall, there's a difference between investigating why certain characteristics are deemed 'male' or 'masculine', and identifying different brain types which one then deems to be 'male' or 'female' on the basis of unexamined cultural assumptions that the characteristics of these brain types better fist men or women respectively. And from what Victoria says, it appears that Baron-Cohen has done the latter.

This is interesting, as you use the words 'masculine' and 'feminine' above rather than 'male' and 'female'. Arguably there is a less worrying semantic difference there, since they refer to characteristics which are 'typical' of a sex, rather than determined by it. I admit the possiblity that those words could be associated with qualities divorced from biological sex, in some circumstances. It is the specific use of 'male' and 'female' with reference to brains that is intolerable to me (and to Cameron too, I think), since it suggests said qualities are innate to biological men and women.

On the other hand, I still don't think that the terms 'masculine' and 'feminine' are valid, or particularly helpful in context. Yes, they stand for a 'constellation of qualities' but these arise almost entirely out of a socially constructed gender framework. The characteristics 'typical' of males and females are different across time and cultures, and have no fixed meaning. They are ambiguous and emotionally loaded words. When we exhibit typical masculine or feminine behaviour we are mostly playing parts assigned to us, which have nothing to do with the hardwiring of our brains or our sex.

I agree that work that investigates how different groups of human beings are identified as male or masculine (or female and feminine) is valuable, but as sociology or anthropology, not as science. Cameron uses an anthropological example in 'Myths', a tribe in Papua New Guinea for whom altercation and violent speech is a feminine quality, whereas passivity and negotiation are considered masculine. These gender stereotypes are as entirely normalised in their culture as the opposite is in ours. I don't think it is useful for science to describe these tribal women as having 'male' brains just because of the characteristics they display, when there is no physiological difference to, say, the brain of the passive, subordinate Victorian housewife.

Yes, my second comment wasn't meant to be a defence of Baron-Cohen (nor was my first), it was a response to the more general question Victoria asked.

Sorry, Victoria, I somehow missed your comment when I replied to Tony:

"as you use the words 'masculine' and 'feminine' above rather than 'male' and 'female'."

Do you know, I didn't even notice that I'd done that -- how telling. I agree that 'male' and 'female' are more problematic, given that they refer to biological sex.

"The characteristics 'typical' of males and females are different across time and cultures, and have no fixed meaning."

Of course, but I'm taking it as a given that what we're talking about here is attempting to understand (and, as necessary, demolish) the assumptions specific to our contemporary culture.

Given that I agree with almost everything in your comment, I'm no longer sure what we're disagreeing about! I think it's perhaps that I believe more in work that takes place within our culture to understand our constructions of "masculine" and "feminine"; I don't think the problem can be resolved purely with comparative work.

I suppose that, strictly speaking, it's also true that I would be astonished to find there are literally no physiological differences at all between the typical male brain and the typical female brain -- given the very obvious physiological differences between the sexes, and the sensitivity of the brain during development. It's just that I think those differences are probably too subtle for us to currently identify them reliably, and it's my assumption that the effect of those differences on behaviour would be swamped by the effects of culture and upbringing on behaviour; and that therefore they are essentially irrelevant to any discussion of masculine/male feminine/female.

"but as sociology or anthropology, not as science"

Sociology and anthropology aren't sciences now? ;-)

(Also: how many Victorian housewife brains do we have to carry out comparative analyses with? Serious question, that; I genuinely have no idea if there are tissue samples locked away in a vault somewhere.)

Victoria,

While I agree with almost everything you've written, I think it must also be said that if you don't want to be raped, male or female, you need to be forceful and assertive in declaring that. As a father of a 10-year-old girl, this issue has some importance to me. The male in the case you cite either deliberately raped his victim or is utterly clueless -- either way, it's important to resist forcefully. This has nothing to do with the victim being to blame for the crime; it has to do with not getting raped. The fact that a court may not buy passive resistance as sufficient grounds to prove rape is terrible, but I'm more concerned with preventing the rape in the first place. Said another way - if someone -- male or female -- is not forceful in resisting rape, he or she may be victimized not once but again in court. Is it fair? Of course not, but there it is. At the very least, if you are forceful there's a better chance of getting the bastard put away. And I know it's not always that simple, that fear can be hard to control, but I think our default position should be to fight back.

Can't we say that the woman in the case you cite should have been more aggressive without attaching blame? Just that we can say that anyone walking alone at night in unfamiliar territory should take precautions? Neither statement should imply that the victim is at fault, but the advice in both statements may help prevent someone from getting victimized in the first place. I want to make it very clear that I am not defending the judge in the case you cite. His lecture is more appropriately given to a group of people seeking advice on how not to be raped than it is to a victim of rape.

As far as differences between genders goes -- as I understand it, even in studies that show some very slight biological differences concerning communication or cognitive function, the variation in each gender is so great as to overwhelm everything else. In other words, whatever difference there may be is statistically insignificant. I think you are exactly right in saying power differences, class differences, role differences, etc. are the chief determinant.

I haven't read the Baron-Cohen book, but I think it may be important to point out that he might be operating in a somewhat different context. (And I note that the quotation explictly says that "people" can have male brains, and "people" can have female brains.)

Baron-Cohen is a specialist on autism, and the autist mind is sometimes thought of, and referred to, as the "extreme male" brain. (This "extreme male" brain can be found in women as well as men, though less frequently. Autism is about 4 times more prevalent in males.) It seems to me that the distinction being drawn between the styles of brain have to do with social interaction and empathy -- yes, that reinforces sexual stereotypes, but it is also what marks one's place on the autism spectrum. This is the context in which Baron-Cohen is writing, and within that context it isn't so easy to think he is practising only sexism, and not science.

Thanks for pointing out the autism connection, Capybara. Cameron doesn't explicitly mention that in 'Myths'. However, I still think the criticism against B-C stands, in that he uses the words 'male' and 'female' to define brain types. And it seems to me that to call the autistic brain the 'extreme male brain' is the epitome of this trend. First, it makes plain the connection between 'male' brains and males since, as you say, autism is 4 times more prevalant in males. Second, it suggests that while the average 'male' brain is not autistic, it is the root of characteristics associated with autism, i.e. an inability to understand emotions and indirect statements.

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